Reasons to Stay

REASONS WHY BRITAIN’S FUTURE IS IN THE EU

 

1. Jobs

Around 3.5 million British jobs are directly linked to British membership of the European Union’s single market – 1 in 10 British jobs.

2. Exports & investment

The EU buys over 50 per cent of UK exports (54 per cent of goods, 40 per cent of services).
Over 300,000 British companies and 74 per cent of British exporters operate in other EU markets.
American and Asian EU firms build factories in Britain because it is in the single market.

3. Trade

The EU negotiates trade agreements with the rest of the world. Outside the EU Britain would have to renegotiate trade deals alone. While the EU is the world’s largest market, a UK outside the EU would not be a high priority for other counties to negotiate a trade deal.

4. Consumer clout

British families enjoy lower mobile phone roaming charges, lower credit card fees, cheaper flights and proper compensation when flights are delayed or cancelled. These sorts of benefits could not be achieved by Britain alone.

5. Clean environment

Through commonly agreed EU standards, national Governments have achieved improvements to the quality of air, rivers and beaches. Good for Britain and good for Britons holidaying or living abroad!

6. Power to curb the multinationals

The EU has taken on multinational giants like Microsoft, Samsung and Toshiba for unfair competition. The UK would not be able to do this alone.

7. Freedom to work and study abroad – and easy travel

1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU. More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13. Driving licences issued in the UK are valid throughout the EU.

8. Peace and democracy

The EU has helped secure peace among previously warring western European nations. It helped to consolidate democracy in Spain, Portugal, Greece and former Soviet bloc countries and helped preserve peace in the Balkans since the end of the Balkans War. With the UN it now plays a leading role in conflict prevention, peacekeeping and democracy building.

9. Equal pay and non-discrimination

Equal pay for men and women is enshrined in EU law, as are bans on discrimination by age, race or sexual orientation. This benefits Britain and British people who live in other EU countries.

10. Influence in the world

As 28 democracies, and as the world’s biggest market, we are strong when we work together.
Britain is represented in many international organisations in joint EU delegations – giving Britain more influence than it would have alone. The EU has played a major role in climate, world trade and development.

11. Cutting red tape

Common rules for the common market make it unnecessary to have 28 sets of national regulations.

12. Fighting crime

The European Arrest Warrant replaced long extradition procedures and enables the UK to extradite criminals wanted in other EU countries, and bring to justice criminals wanted in the UK who are hiding in other EU countries.

Eurojust helps UK authorities work with other EU countries’ to tackle international organised crime such as drug smuggling, people trafficking and money laundering.

...and one bonus...

13. Research funding

The UK is the second largest beneficiary of EU research funds, and the British Government expects future EU research funding to constitute a vital source of income for our world-leading universities and companies.


Showing 378 reactions

Please check your e-mail for a link to activate your account.
  • ‘Believe anything you like but the EU is big yet the powers within are exclusive. It will continue to destroy everything we have gained in rights as its only interest is to monopolies the market.’
    Almost totally opposite of reality.
    The EU is protection and in some cases intruding our rights. It is the UK government that is or is attempting to curtail them.
    Yes, the UE deals with big business and – that’s government. In fact the directing of grants (what you might call giving us back our own money) assures poorer areas of a country (NE or SW England) aren’t impoverished as government seeks to reduce cost by working with ever increasing central hubs (monopolies) in geographically reduced areas (London, Manchester).
    ‘Today we have Company Directors getting millions in profits yet have over 90% of their work force living on or bellow the bread line .’ You think that doesn’t happen outside the EU? In fact the EU is desperately trying to regulate this disparity, largely in the banking and financial sectors, but the UK is one of the most vociferous voices against it. UKIP, that bastion of the worker (ha ha) is the loudest opponent of such proposed legislation.
  • Believe anything you like but the EU is big yet the powers within are exclusive. It will continue to destroy everything we have gained in rights as its only interest is to monopolies the market. Today we have Company Directors getting millions in profits yet have over 90% of their work force living on or bellow the bread line . They will close down a factory because they can start up another factory in another country were they can employ a work force for a lower wage. There is no limit as to how far a business will go to increase the profit margin and the lives of the people mean nothing to them other then numbers. Like the EU it is full of self made lords who are no different to the criminals we have on the streets other then the fact they have made it to the top without having to pay for it. It is we who will pay the bill no matter how bad it will get. The world is getting to small to sustain the activities of the big boys. China, Russia, USA and Asia are all having trouble containing the problems that come about because of them being to big. In a game of monopoly there is only one winner.
  • Aimee , your wikipedia must be misdirecting you … See this from the EU’s own website ……: " The European Commission is the EU’s politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation "….
    Commissioners are not elected by us plebs so … NOT democratic …. and if Kinnock had stood a third time he still wouldn’t have been elected.
    It’s also irrelevant pointing out that British democracy is a bit of a joke but at least the Queen has no power like American Presidents to pardon drug dealers and other criminals at his/her whim… Article II Section 2
  • Apologies for not checking my spelling of Keith
  • Kieth Clarke wote,
    ‘The only threat there is if the EU itself starts to act like a spoilt child and uses its power to interfere with the trading affairs in Europe. ’ You would expect to divorce your spouse and still live off their earnings, live in the same house and have preferential treatment in the bedroom while inviting any old smack in off the street???
    That isn’t acting like spoiled child that’s protecting their interests.
    However, to continue you analogy, if you want to take your ball home don’t expect to play with us when it bursts.
  • Look At our Superb British Democracy?

    Last Election 2015 Results
    Turnout 61.1 % with 46,420,413 votes cast
    Didn’t bother to vote 38.9% Equal to 29,554,076
    To every 6 that voted 4 didn’t both?

    Conservatives took 36.9% of vote. Have 331 Seats – 11,334,376 votes
    Labour took 30.4 232 Seats – 9,347.304
    Ukip took 12.6 1 Seat – 3,881.099 ?
    Lib Dem took 7.9 8 Seats – 2,415,562
    SNP took 4.7 56 Seats – 1,454,436 ?
    Green Party took 3.8 1 Seat – 1,157,613

    Doest that make any sense?
    Ukip get 13% of the Votes and One Seat
    Lib Dem with 8% get Eight Seats
    Scottish NP with 5% get 56 Seats?
    Green Party with 4% get One Seat

    We then have a Prime Minister we don’t elect, but is picked by his party. If the Tories so desired they could have a member from the House of Lords as their Prime Minister – He has a Cabinet which he chooses and who few of us know about? Many people have no idea of the backgrounds of the unelected Cabinet?

    If the PM wishes he so desires he can ignore what his Cabinet advises.

    If the PM wishes he can have people in his cabinet who haven’t been elected and can possibly have vested interests.

    We have a House of Lords with 800 Peers who we don’t elect and have no power over.

    And we have a Judiciary we don’t elect or know how they are chosen and they cant be dismissed.

    My God and we have the cheek to say we have a Democracy and sneer at the European Union and its unaccountability?
  • Beppe – Kinnock lost twice not three times, but let’s get onto the facts. The only people who can vote on laws are the council of ministers (elected government ministers) and the parliament (elected MEPs). Commissioners don’t get a vote. So, democratic. Here, the House of Lords is unelected and the conservatives have a majority with only 37% of votes cast – democratic?

    The EU has brought in and guarantees workers’ and women’s rights across the EU. Here Johnson, Gove and Farage have been talking about removing workers’ and women’s rights and Steve Hilton talked about getting rid of maternity leave. Don’t assume these lovely chaps – keen on privatisation of the NHS too they are – will keep your rights.

    A lot would change if we left. Leaving the single market, no rights to freely travel, work and live throughout the EU, cutting up 60+ trade agreements and others in the pipeline. Even Patrick Minford from the economists for brexit said ‘’Over time, if we left the EU, it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing’.
  • All I see at present is that both sides are screaming about immigration, the economy and border control. From what I believe is that its not Europe we are arguing about but the EU. If we left little change will happen in both trading and freedom of movement. The only threat there is if the EU itself starts to act like a spoilt child and uses its power to interfere with the trading affairs in Europe. The main benefit from leaving is that all the countries in Europe can be made more accountable for the movement of people. We can still move freely in Europe and we still need a passport when entering or leaving Britain, very little difference. Its accountability that is important. An enlarged version of a family member looking out for a fellow member. At present we have a group of commercial business men posing as politicians in the EU who vary few people know about yet have control over our trade and business. If we leave we will still have these countries as our neighbors and we will still be able to trade with them. The difference is that we can decide how we will trade. It will be the same neighborhood but without the Dictatorship. Then the main benefit will be that we will not be paying vast amounts of our money to sustain some private club for failed politicians so they can enjoy the high life without the responsibility.
  • Luka Bozinoski
    If reason, logic and truth won votes we would be having a referendum. Your well made points will simply be dismissed as wrong by those whose emotions rules their decision making.
    Yesterday I read a comment (elsewhere), ‘I don’t care if its wrong, I don’t care if we become poor. …. I don’t care if there’s a war. I’m voting Brexit.’
  • Keith Clarke
    Don’t know what you did but many I very much doubt your union reduced your wage – opportunities for over time, time and a half or double time were lost by many but jobs were protected. The experience of the Thatcher years, especially the media frenzy, set unionism back decades.
    The unions I had dealings with all my career fought tooth and nail to achieve the best for their members.
    But equating union amalgamation (largely brought about by reduced union membership as manufacturing industries were reduced to bare bones) has little to do with the EU. In fact the EU is all that sits between workers rights and monopoly control along US lines (where people have to fight against anti-unionism and reduced work opportunities for those affiliated to unions) preferred by UKIP and the right. Our union laws are already among the most restrictive in the free world.
    I would have taken you comment more seriously had it not been for the final sentence, ‘Its full of thieve, thugs and fraudsters.’ which is both extreme and silly.
  • Look I’m going to be honest. I’ve been pro-Stay from the start. However I have done a helluva lot of research to understand the other side of things. But however many documentaries I’ve watched, however many comments I’ve read, however many speeches I’ve listened to … I’m just not seeing it.
    Without going into too much (or in fact any) detail, as far as I see it, the main arguments for the Brexit are EU Expenses, EU restrictions, laws and regulations, independance, Single Market, not ‘needing’ the EU, immigration, and national sovereinty (I may have forgetten a few big ones, but I think those are the main areas where everything is based).
    The problem is though, most (not all) of these arguments just tend to slide. For instance, we want to be free of spending 13bn on the EU every year, yet chances are we’re going to end up losing lots of that to commercial taxes, loss of business and the fact that the EU gives us more of that back in other forms than you might think.
    The people worried about all the laws and restrictions that come with being in the EU have some of a point, but nearly all of these laws stay intact if we leave, we just won’t have that much say in them. We still reside in Europe! Not to mention, many of these laws we wrote ourselves, and so chances are they’ll stay the same anyway, especially with people like Cameron in charge (who people seem to forget is nearly completely unprepared to lose the Referendum).
    Having complete control over Britain will be a breath of fresh air, however, we don’t have absolutely zero power right now. If the EU controlled everything then there wouldn’t be a point in electing a British government in the first place. People are also worried about how the EU’s becoming more like the US as capitalism grows. Even though this is true, the Union kind of protects us from this. It’s laws make it slightly harder for a country to completely become capitalist in a short period of time, and so although it’s not completely preventing the problem, it’s slowing it down. For instance, members of the EU are helping resist against making all schools academies.
    Britain’s the 5th economy in the world for now. It’s market is massive, and arguably a real player in world affairs. But if one thing is for certain, it’s that if we leave this will no longer be true. Now I’m not saying Britain won’t climb back up the ladder eventually, but that will be in at least 10 or 15 years, and we definitely won’t be 5th then either. Many argue that we don’t need to stay the 5th largest market and, while this isn’t untrue, falling form this spot is going to cost us LOTS of money. It will be harder, sometimes impossible, to find trade deals with other countries, including China and the US. In between trading with the massive body that is the EU and the economically inferior that is the UK, who is the most logical option (and whoever quotes Trump on this should do a little more research about him, he’s a businessman through and through, and seems to have no credibility, he’s says two opposing things at the same time to get the votes)?
    Not to mention that most of our exports are to the EU, and we’re going to have to pay taxes on them too, which isn’t going to be easy seeing as we’ll already be suffering form other economic issues. And who honestly thinks that if we leave, the government will nationalize our products more? Is there really any chance whatsoever?
    Now when people say we don’t ‘need’ the EU, they are right in lots of ways. Britain won’t collapse if we leave. We’re doing well on our own. However, we need to keep in mind that many of our successes are tied to our membership in the EU, even if the deals are with us.
    Immigration is a problem. It’s not as much as a big deal as some of us make out, and Britain’s population by 2020 won’t be predominantly Syrian, but there is an issue. But it’s here that I think … compared to other countries, how many actual refugees are we taking? The number of Syrian refugees we’ve taken (granted asylum) would fit on a tube train (216). It’s taken 5000 since 2011. Germany’s taken 800,000 Syrians. In fact, the EU’s doing pretty well by stopping them in their tracks in Macedonia (they didn’t build a fence because they were scared they were coming to live in Macedonia, same goes for Hungary and the rest). Also, did anyone see that press conference about Calais? Hollande was pretty clear that there was nothing they could do to stop them crossing the Channel if we left. So ironically, things might even be worse if we leave (however this is not necessarily a certainty). Mind you, we’ve got a better border than most, we’ve got a good few miles of freezing seawater.
    At this point, I get to national sovereignty. Now this is a real thing. We don’t want shady individuals who we didn’t elect (mind you could you name all the MPs right now?) …
    I think this whole thing is blown out of proportion. These ‘shady individuals’ are our representatives in Brussells, but they’re not secretly planning to bomb us. Our government is made up of lots of people we don’t know. All we see are the figureheads, like nearly everywhere else in the world. If we leave, there may be less, but there will always be somebody governing the country from the shadows, and this time there won’t be so many other ‘shady individuals’ to stop them if they want something selfish achieved. Now I’m not saying what’s happening in Brussells is right. There should definitely be a helluva lot more transparency in the area. But to say we’re just pawns controlled by Brussells is completely false.
    Also at this point it’s worth mentionning that we have one of, if not the best position in the EU right now. Cameron’s deal is doing us plenty of favors, and giving us one of the most powerful weapons of all: influence. If we give up our right to have a say in the rules, we’re just making a mistake in my opinion. The EU is giving us plenty I think, and while we’re not entirely dependant on them, they’re not entirely dependant on us, and won’t hesitate to make things harder for us if we leave. Spite is not nonexistant in politics …
    But coming to my main point, is that lots of Leave (Stay too, but maily Leave) voters, are simply to uninformed, and are making their choice based on emotion, and their sense of ‘Britishness’. Everyday I see pensionners on the news saying ’Don’t want to be told what do by Brussells’, ‘We need to make Britain great again’ without really knowing what they’re talking about. I’m not saying there aren’t many reasons to leave, but I’m saying too many Brexiters just don’t know them, and are going on a gut instinct. Their pension won’t improve if we leave anyways, not that it needs improving (used to be 4 workers, is not 1.8, but my generation will have nothing). For me, a main factor in wanting to stay is studying. Studying in Britain is ridiculously expensive. I can get just as good an education in Germany for no money. If we leave, that won’t be possible, and going to University will just put me neck deep in dept, and desperately looking for a job (some of which may be easier to find internationally too). It just seems obvious to me to listen to the arguments of an economics or politics student (and there are a helluva lot of them saying to Stay) than an older person’s rant about Britishness (it’s important for me to point out that obviously not all Brexiters are pensionners with no idea what they’re talking, obviously lots are educated and young too, like some of the people commenting here). All I’m saying, is the world should be working towards unity, not separation. We can easily preserve our culture while staying in the EU. We’re supposed to be working towards somewhere where people can move around freely, study without worrying about debt and live in a secure environment where you’re not worrying about whether you’re getting that next trade deal. The EU has MANY problems to adress, and is VERY far from the perfect, but it’s not all lost and there’s plenty of time left to improve itself (I estimate 100 years before we wipe ourselves out at the this rate though).

    Anyway, like I said, I definitely should have found some more numbers but I was short on time. Very interested to hear what you guys think, and why my points may be wrong, as I’m still, as usual, open to suggestion.
  • Philip Volante, seems you are more aware then most. I like what you say. I do remember my union before it amalgamated with another union and became the Amalgamated Engineers union. It may have been bigger but we, as trades men, lost a lot of our power as unionists. The result was our pay dropped along with many other union members due to our union delegates getting involved with the management. Just like the EU, once it gets big, its leaders start playing with the big boys and leave its members behind to suffer the consequences. The same way the Labor party acts more like the tory party. Its full of thieve, thugs and fraudsters.
  • The Unite Union has put out a leaflet “What has Europe ever done for us?” claiming all sort of worker’s benefits and rights as a consequence of being in the EU.

    Not only is Unison misleading its members, it shows a shocking lack of respect for the struggles of trade unionists and their history. Most of the legislation referred to in this leaflet is predated by UK domestic law.
    The referendum is not about Europe. It is about the European Union. Only 28 of 50 European countries are in the EU.

    Unite says, because of Europe you get:
    1 Protection at work – You are safe in your work place from dangerous machines, chemicals or any other risks to your health
    Factories Act 1833 was one of the earlier pieces of legislation. There were many other Acts of Parliament giving protection to working people before we joined the EU.

    2 Holidays – Europe is responsible for making sure you get 28 days paid leave a year.
    The UK parliament passed the Holidays with Pay Act in 1938. There has been subsequent legislation improving workers entitlements.

    3 Time off work – you and your colleagues aren’t made to work more than 48 hours a week and aren’t made to make more than 13 hours a day.
    UK put limits on working hours in the 19th and early 20th centuries in many different Acts of Parliament.

    4 Fairness at work – all workers get the same rights, it doesn’t matter if they are full time or part-time, temporary or permanent, in-house or agency
    Temporary and agency workers used to be paid for the time they worked. The Temporary & Agency Workers Directive led to the widespread use of Zero Hour Contracts which still ensure that people only get paid for the time they work.

    5 Sickness rights – you don’t lose out if you are ill when on annual leave
    People didn’t lose out before. If people went sick just before or while on holiday their holiday was moved so they ended up with more time off.

    6 Equal pay – Men and women must be paid the same for doing the same job.
    Thanks to the sewing machinists strike at Ford, Dagenham in 1968 the UK introduced the Equal Pay Act 1970, before we joined the EEC.

    7 Maternity rights – statutory maternity leave if wanted..
    8 Parental leave – New parents are entitled to time off work to look after their children.
    The National Insurance Act 1911 included a universal maternal health benefit. A consequence of the right to maternity leave is that fewer employers take on women of child-bearing age.

    9 Discrimination – protection from you being discriminated against for you age. gender, race, sexual orientation or if you are disabled.
    The UK introduced the Race Relations Act 1965 starting the process to the present anti-discrimination legislation.

    10 Healthcare on Holiday – protection if you get ill when you are on holiday, you won’t have to pay for your healthcare.
    The UK had reciprocal healthcare arrangements with other countries before we joined the EEC. We still have such arrangements with non-EU countries.

    There is nothing to suggest that improvements since 1972 are due to EEC/EU membership.

    The financial difficulties in Greece and other countries have seen the removal of workers rights, the erosion of benefits and a significant increase in unemployment. That is evidence that the EU’s first priority lies with the banks, not with the people.

    Staying in the EU is increasingly removing our right to make our own laws and improve rights and benefits for everyone.

    By trying to get us to stay in the EU, our MPs and union leaders are telling us that they don’t have the courage or ability to lead the country and decide our own affairs.
  • This is just an opinion from an individual but. The whole world is starting to crumble around us due to greed. Any dim wit with a large amount of money can waltz in and do what the fuck they like in pursuit of finding new ways of making money. From bulldozing the rain forests, ripping up the earth, to driving many species to extinction. The problem is our Governments wont do a thing to stop it because it is making money in a big way. The EU is the same, it is big and thinks it has the muscle to do anything it likes. Each time we try to stop this we are pushed back and threatened with legal action. If we get out of the EU, it will enable us to start cleaning up this disgusting mess and maybe influence the rest of the world on how to make the world more sustainable and not so fucking violent. Its GREED and the promise of being in on the take that is the problem. Our government is just as bent as any other. As for the suffering of humans I cant comment but I am concerned with the destruction of the natural environment and it seems this will continue until there is nothing left to capitalize on. That appears to be possible only when we wipe ourselves out.
  • Dear Dennis , you confidently assert : " What we do know is we are stronger, more influential, safer and wealthier in Europe because that is where we are.."
    We could only know this if there were parallel universes operating and we could make a comparison.
    So it’s not reasoned logic to assert what you have no prospect of proving.
  • Aimee….. you are 100% wrong the EU is not a democracy.
    MEPs don’t make laws … Laws emanate solely from the Commission
    Commissioners like Neil Kinnock who was rejected THREE times in UK General Elections are not elected by the public (democracy ) is even playing his part.
    The British didn’t want him anywhere near power but we got him anyway.
    Kathy Ashton is the classic example (mate of Tony Blair ) just peruse her rise to power in the EU and had never stood for election in Britain……. Please tell us how you reason the EU is a democracy… I’m always willing to be enlightened.
  • Thanks Dennis. :-) I’m learning a lot of stuff from your posts.
  • The EU has a lot of power to do good too though. Worker’s rights, women’s rights, equality, environmental protection. It’s one of the reasons all major unions are in favour of remain. It would be scary if this lot got in after a brexit…

    Boris Johnson wrote of privatising NHS services when he said: “If people have to pay for them, they will value them more,” and he has demanded the scrapping of the EU’s social charter which protects employment conditions. Michael Gove called for the health service to be ‘denationalised’. Nigel Farage has said that the NHS should move towards an insurance-based system run by private companies and suggested that there was a big problem with employee rights and protections such as maternity leave for small firms. Arron Banks the millionaire backer and co-founder of the Leave.EU campaign in a recent interview stated: ‘If it were up to me, I’d privatise the NHS’. Tim Martin of Wetherspoons is a big user of zero-hour contracts giving people unstable incomes and hours. Extreme right-wing parties such as the British National Party and the French National Front are supporting Brexit.
  • To Dennis Downing, I think I can understand were you are coming from. The problem is I dont like the idea of the EU. Having lived in military camps from England to Hong Kong since the late 50,s and I enjoyed growing up in a well disciplined environment. What I dont like about the EU is its size and lack of accountability. Like a lot of businesses that get to big, they start to control the businesses around them so creating an unfriendly environment. The EU is only interested in gaining power and wealth and is not concerned to the damage it will do to get it. The USA, China and Russia are all big countries but are also badly managed. In all three countries they have the rich controlling the poor but at the same time they have very little accountability with what is actually going on. If its not making big bags of money then they are not interested. Just about every big business from ICI to BP, are constantly bending or breaking the law and telling the governing people what they want to do and get away with it. This is much more troublesome in the EU because it has far more power over the law. The EU is playing a dangerous game of monopoly. If you want to live in the EU then move.
  • aimee j

    I wish I could be as succinct as you.
    Great posts.
  • Dear Arnold
    BNP/ UKIP No difference
    historically the electorate in this country has NEVER given them any power at all – UKIP represents us in the EU
    If you want to live in a democracy, where you have a say on who runs this country, – false 3 parts of the UK will never have a Westminster Government that represents them. Increasingly we are seeing boundary changes that will mean the UK will always be Tory run. We are becoming a a on party ‘Democracy’. We have seen time and again the EU wants to ensure equal rights and workers rights only for our government to take those rights away.
    Britain is about to see its best years yet… crystal ball ??? How do you know that? You don’t, no one does. What we do know is we are stronger, more influential, safer and wealthier in Europe because that is where we are and has been the trend since joining.
    Compare the UK with the EU who are mired in regulation, – we are in the EU and have that regulation … regulation that keeps ordinary people fro being exploited, losing rights and being healthy.
    high unemployment – some areas have that others don’. But taking the great big world into account unemployment in the UE is tinny compared to the rest of the planet.
    and federalism for the sake of federalism (not because it makes sense) – it does make sense. It is how the USA operates. Are the people of New York or Kansas mad. It was also deemed essential for lasting peace by Winston Churchill who coined the phrase United States of Europe.
    the UK will thrive outside the EU possibly possibly not but it appears from all the messages com ing fro overseas it will take time to get back to our current position, and we know the Tory mentality is to increase austerity i.e. attack those least able to defend themselves against the banking and corporate sectors.
    if we leave, you can choose who is in charge of the country, – I can’t. As a voter outside England I have to accept whoever England decides should be in charge. To me and millions of others that offers no choice.
    and if you don’t like the government of the day, you can sling them out at the next election! No we can’t. Boundary changes and our delightful media will decide on our governments.

    If we remain in the EU, then kiss goodbye to democracy, as our laws are made by an entity that is not elected and is not even based in the UK. – 12% of our laws are drafted in the EU almost all are for the benefit of UK citizens in terms of consumer safety, human rights, civil rights, preserving natural assets such as fisheries and prevent over farming to the point of destroying the land for future farming.
    Remember, we are the 5th biggest economy in the world, – thanks to being part of the largest trading club the world has ever known. Our economy is based (75%) on finance and services which could easily be reduced if conditions (i.e. ease and speed of trading) ardmore favourable in Frankfurt, Madrid, Brussels etc.
    Our language is the most widely spoken on the planet, – No it isn’t. Chinese 1,197 million, Spanish 414 million, English 335 million.
    in Britain we know how to get things done – remember how the Olympics 2012 were ready ahead of schedule and on budget? Go compare that with Greek Olympics in 2004! And its legacy was to reduce sport in the UK, reduce leisure facilities across the UK, take funding away from athletes and good causes. It was spectacular and we are very good at putting on a big pompous show – showing off as we did wonderfully for theQueens’ Jubilee, but we had employ people from all over Europe to get it done and ignored UK providers of materials in favour of those from China and elsewhere.
    How about comparing ‘getting things done’ for everyone. In terms of infrastructure we are decades behind in terms of public transport. Our bus services are haphazard and rail is virtually third world level. All across Europe public transport, i.e. something that impacts on the daily lives and experience of the general population is light years ahead. The Olympics, as great and enjoyable and patriotic as it was has gone and left little that will benefit any of us.
    Why would we want to get rid of good, sensible and helpful laws? What laws have been enacted by the EU that are detrimental to the UK or me for that matter? How many would not have an UK equivalent anyway? None.
    Government has control over immigration from outside the UK and has chosen no to apply any sanctions. We are allowed, and do in our hundreds and thousands, move to the EU to live and work.
    You are proof that immigration does not impact on society. As the sone of an incomer you sound as if you are true blue English … in one generation. And that’s my experience too.
    We will always need immigrants and we do now more than ever.
    Housing is not lacking and immigration has only a small impact on housing and renting costs. Banks, mortgage lenders, estate agents and landlords push up the cost of housing and many would prefer to keep properties empty than reduce rents or sell at a lesser profit than they want. I live in a an areas where housing is cheap and given the for sale signs very available. Historically this stock has been bought by incomers who raise prices and dilute the language and culture of the area … they are the English.
    For all the immigrants here unemployment is low and still jobs can’t be filled by indigenous labour as so many are reluctant to make the effort. Wages are not kept low by immigrants. There is a national minimum and living wage which is ver unpopular with employers many of whom would pay far less if they could.
  • Arnold – we already live in a democracy and the EU is a democracy. What’s your problem? We’ve got a big economy because we do well economically out of being in the EU – full access to the biggest market in the world and trade agreements with 60+ other countries.

    The BNP is an important point because the brexit campaign has descended into a xenophobic rant against foreigners and a campaign for Boris ‘trump lite’ Johnson for PM. A terrifying thought as the lead brexiters have all called for NHS privatisation. I’d rather vote remain with the NHS staff and management than vote leave with the BNP, Johnson and Gove.

    By the way, the initial estimate for the Olympics was £2.4bn and it ended up costing over £9bn. And the brexit Australian style immigration ‘control’ is what we already use on non-EU immigration which is higher than EU immigration. Australia has 3 times as much immigration as we do in proportion to the population.
  • hi Aimee,

    Please don’t let the likes of how the BNP et al want you to vote, influence your decision. They are irrelevant, and historically the electorate in this country has NEVER given them any power at all. Your decision should be based on what you think is best for this country.

    Aimee, please consider the following…

    If you want to live in a democracy, where you have a say on who runs this country, then Vote leave. Britain is about to see its best years yet…Compare the UK with the EU who are mired in regulation, high unemployment and federalism for the sake of federalism (not because it makes sense) – the UK will thrive outside the EU. If we leave, you can choose who is in charge of the country, and if you don’t like the government of the day, you can sling them out at the next election!

    If we remain in the EU, then kiss goodbye to democracy, as our laws are made by an entity that is not elected and is not even based in the UK. Remember, we are the 5th biggest economy in the world, our language is the most widely spoken on the planet, and in Britain we know how to get things done – remember how the Olympics 2012 were ready ahead of schedule and on budget? Go compare that with Greek Olympics in 2004!

    It’s time we BELIEVE IN BRITAIN.

    One accountable government at the helm is the most efficient way of running this country. How on earth 28 countries together can bring efficient, effective, popular and accountable and GOOD government in the UK is beyond me! And to top it all off, we have no say the laws they pass – there is no mechanism to remove them!!! – Have we gone blinking mad wanting to lock ourselves into this arrangement?

    As for immigration, people will always want to come and live here – that’s a good thing – however if we have ‘unlimited immigration’, that is simply unsustainable; (I’m the son of immigrants for the record). Imagine the pressure it creates in society, greater demand for housing forces property prices up, and lower wages due to surplus of workers. Give our government control, so they can respond to this as necessary…remember the UK will always need immigrants, however if we are sensible about it, we must have control over this issue.

    Have I swayed you Aimee?
  • To Keith Clarke – I have to respond
    Britain is my home – as it is mine and millions of others.
    andand I dont like it being under the control of some unknown bunch of unelected rouges. – it isn’t. Only 12% of our laws come from the EU and each one deals with something we would have to deal with anyway. (88% of our laws are made in the UK including benefit laws, health care rules, border control and immigration from outside the EU.) We might decide on a variation but as they all convect with other laws and many link with requirements outside the EU our variations would be slight. We would also have to infall and pay for a level of government to deal with the extra work. To ensure robust laws are drawn up, scrutinised and tested could cost £hundreds of millions a year. Laws we make in the UK which may have any form of external impact are subject to interested countries commenting and sometimes dictating – extradition law is one that is highly ‘influenced’ by the USA.
    The idea of having them decide how I am going to live is unnatural. – with all due respect no one is telling you how to live. Nearly 2,000 years of Christian philosophy underpins our society and conventions as it does across Europe. I can not understand how you believe anything the EU does dictates ‘how’ you live. I find ‘unnatural’ about a group of people deciding laws for their society to live by. What is unusual is the EU ignores ‘unnatural’ (made made) borders in pursuit of equality for all citizens.
    I much prefer the idea of being a country that can decide for itself regardless if its the correct thing to do. – I accept you ‘prefer the idea of being a country that can decide for itself’ but with all due respect why would anyone ignore and act against what is ‘right’. But what you prefer never happens. The people we accept are in charge decide what happens; politicians, religious leaders, friends of politicians who are entitle and the hereditary titled are neither elected nor can they be removed by us. Laws are dreamed up by anonymous ‘think tank’ committees and drawn drawn up unelected civil servants and bureaucrats who present them to the elected politicians.
    But what country do you refer to? I am Welsh, my country has never voted in favour of Tory government. I am not a nationalist but I don’t consider the UK as my country, I don’t consider any constituent part of the UK as more important than any other but I do see the EU treating my homeland more equally and fairly than a Westminster government.
    The EU is wrong every time yet we let it continue thinking it will get better when we know full well it wont. – The EU doesn’t think. Supporters of the EU have all the evidence of experience that the EU does improve our lives and out chances in life. I was a child in the 50s and 60 and life was grim. Life in my experience has improved immeasurable as I’ve aged. We have no wars between EU (equivalent previous groups) since the inaugural collective, we are significantly better off in terms of housing, wealth, health, equality, safety, life chances, life choices.
    The way the likes of Teresa May are willing to throw away or civil rights and Cameron / Osbourne so easily further impoverish the poor to ease the difficulties being experienced in the banking world, without those institutions contributing to their own re-genesis, indicates the spiralling decline we’d experience outside the EU.
    Those proposing leaving are plucking figures out of the ether and fear mongering on a massive scale. They can’t tell us what they would do because THEY are not going to form the government.
    And even if there were financial savings (which almost all independent analysts suggest would disappear with the measurable impact of leaving) the leave campaign ‘proposals’ require that saving to be spent many times over.

    How stupid can we really be? – we can vote to throw that all away and leave the EU.
  • I also don’t want to be exposed to the likes of David Icke, the BNP, the French National Front and Donald Trump amongst other ‘wise’ heads supporting brexit.

    You make it sound like I’m on my own falling for things, but scientists, universities, businesses, NHS staff and management, all major unions are all in favour of remain. All been duped and only you can see the light? Do me a favour. Wake up and stop falling for conspiracy theories. Next think you’ll be telling me the EU is run by the loch ness monster.
  • Dear Aimee,
    Your arguments consist of the conjecture and unsubstantiatable claims of the INnards which have been buzzing about for months and swatted over and over again.
    The innards can see in the dark.
    They earnestly assert , "Leaving is a leap into the dark " then continue to tell us ( oblivious to the contradiction ) .. " we would be worse off by tens of billions of pounds outside the EU " etc..
    Leaving the EU doesn’t mean the end of student travel or University funding or a sudden end of trading et al..
    Penicillin , the jet engine , DNA, the steam engine, etc. etc. etc were invented in Britain before the E.U. started to munificently hand our own money back to us with instructions what to do with it.
    You obviously haven’t been exposed to the likes of Daniel Hannan and you are convinced what you assert is sensible .
    Don’t be too disappointed that the majority on the 23rd will disagree with you.
  • Why we should Remain
    • A strong, dynamic economy. We have had the fastest growing economy of the G7 countries over the last 35 years in the EU and we have the highest ever rate of employment. All reputable economic studies from the Treasury and the IMF to Oxford University and the London School of Economics show we would be worse off by tens of billions of pounds outside the EU. We have access to the single market and through the EU trade agreements with more than 60 other countries with more on the way. Nearly 50% of British trade is with the rest of the EU, and it is estimated that over three million jobs in this country are connected to membership. Businesses large and small are in favour of Remain.
    • A strong NHS. Funding for the NHS depends on having a strong economy. Over 100,000 people from other EU countries work in the NHS and social care, including 10% of doctors. NHS staff, management and scientists agree that we should Remain.
    • Security. The EU has helped to keep the peace in Western Europe since its foundation. Before 1945, Europe was regularly devastated by conflict and war. Economic interdependence now makes war unthinkable between member states. The EU has also promoted the consolidation and spread of liberal democracy, in post-war Germany and Italy, in post-authoritarian Spain, Portugal and Greece, and most recently in post-communist Central and Eastern Europe. For these reasons, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012. The current and all former heads of NATO and 12 former heads of the British Armed Forces agree that UK membership of the EU is important in maintain peace and security in Europe. The European Arrest Warrant has allowed us to return criminals to other EU countries and bring to justice here thousands of British criminals who had fled to Europe.
    • Science and research. Over 150 members of the Royal Society of scientists have said that leaving the EU would be ‘a disaster for science and universities.’ Universities, including Oxford and Cambrige, support remaining in the EU as do over 80% of students.
    • Opportunities for us and our children. You can freely travel, study, work and live anywhere in the EU. The right of free movement for EU citizens hugely benefits the UK. It boosts our economy and enriches us culturally. Universities in particular benefit from the rights of students and world-class researchers and teachers to move freely. Moreover, many hundreds of thousands of British people live, study and work in other EU countries. We will all be poorer if we lose this right. Young voters are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in the EU as they see these opportunities as a right which would go if we left the EU. There are as many UK citizens in other EU countries as there are people from other EU countries in the UK – we get just as much benefit.
    • Rights, protection and benefits. The EU is a force for progressive values. It champions our civil and political rights, and has outlawed discrimination based on gender, race and sexuality. The EU provides a guarantee for workers’ rights, women’s rights and equality throughout the EU. There are consumer and environmental standards to ensure there is no race to the bottom in these fields. The RSPB and WWF have said that the natural environment will be safer if we stay in the EU. The EHIC card gives you health protection when travelling anyone in the EU and mobile roaming tariffs within the EU are going.
    • Britain leading in Europe and the world. Britain should be leading in the EU and across the world and our influence is amplified by being part of the EU. We have control over rules, opt-outs to protect our unique position and a veto on important matters such as new countries joining. Crucially, membership allows us to influence EU laws. It also allows us to play a role in reforming the EU’s institutions and procedures. Were Britain to leave the EU, it might be allowed to stay in the single market, but it would no longer have a say on deciding its rules or shaping its future. Through the EU we are a rule-maker on the single market, but outside we would be a rule-taker just having to accept the rules with no say.
    • Keep the UK together. Scotland, Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands are all likely to vote heavily in favour of Remain. If we left, Scotland would call another independence referendum. It would be a disaster for Gibraltar and the Falklands as the vast majority of their exports go to the EU. Putting up a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic would according to the Irish prime minister endanger the stability of the peace process.
  • Britain is my home and I dont like it being under the control of some unknown bunch of unelected rouges. The idea of having them decide how I am going to live is unnatural. I much prefer the idea of being a country that can decide for itself regardless if its the correct thing to do. The EU is wrong every time yet we let it continue thinking it will get better when we know full well it wont. How stupid can we really be.
  • Thank you Denis an Amijii for your rational contributions.
    I look forward to Mr Gove explaining tonight why he expects that having left the E U he expects them to trade with us on better terms than we had before? Remember that nearly fifty percent of our exports are at stake Mr Gove

    I was interested in Mr Cameron’s facts that despite being so friendly with America , for two decades they have barred us selling meat to them. I also remember that when they saw Britain’s and the worlds first passenger aeroplane the Comet as being a threat to their monopoly, they tried to bar us from their skies – and they are supposedly our friends?

    The French who see us as an arch rival down the years, will possibly enjoy applying a few bans on our goods and foodstuffs, to their advantage, when they are no longer restricted by the rules of the E U?

    All our emigrant problems will be solved by us exiting the E U? But I note that illegal entry to the USA? is a massive problem despite having a firm hold over their borders. And we have seen what Mr Trumps solution is.

    But lets look at Britain and how successive governments – Not the E U, have failed to provide protection along our extended coastline, to stop illegal entrants? along with criminals and smuggled weapons, explosives etc.

    We are informed that we have four patrol craft, as opposed to Frances forty?

    The ‘Brexit’ group shout out ‘Lets take back control into our own hands’ – Are they saying that it was the E U’s doing that our government couldn’t provide the patrol ships, along with a lack of police, armed services, aircraft carriers and other warships, as well as aircraft?

    I’m afraid that many of our shortcoming are home grown and the E U is a useful Scapegoat, for people Like Boris and his Bananas? Doesn’t he know that very few are grown in Europe?
  • The cost of all the benefits per person in the UK is the equivalent of one cup of Starbuck’s black coffee every four days.
    Some increadibly silly posts. One of the reasons I ‘m voting Remain (in addition to all those listed above) is that the Leave supporters are generally abusive and quite ignorant. The figures suggested by Leavers ignore any benefits (queue guffawing comment about there being none) and ignore the how much is accounting with only a fraction being used to support the Union. The message they give also ignores the fact that we take less EU expats people per head of population than 9 other countries, the number of Brits abroad, the wastelands that would appear in the UK were it not for targeted funding (history show then UK government does not support regions in the North of England,, West of England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland), they ignore the positive contribution expats in Britain make, they ignore the benefits ordinary citizens have in terms of rights, they ignore the peace dividend. They talk up fantasy situations such as everyone being free (I feel more free under the EU than story government), they tell us we will be able to trade in the rest of the world which we already do – a new other world isn’t going to suddenly appear if we leave the EU, they talk about trading with all our friends outside the EU until those friends tell us we’d be mad to leave (messages which are, according to the, a put up job by Cameron). They insist the UK is the only country to pay a premium and ignore the fact that France, Italy and Germany have consistently paid in more to the EU and got less back, that our contributions are falling and net gain increasing.